When your spouse announces he is gay

[Josh - Otokonoko Inu]

its not that easy. when we repress the feeling we actually develope real feelings for the person that we marry. just like every other hetero couple. as time goes by the love may fade as with all relationships. now a hetero male would cheat on you with a female and gay male will cheat on you with a male. we understand how much of a shock that would probably be if we were caught so some of us do come out to our spouses. but the diffrence between us and our relationships is just who we choose to be with. it shouldnt come as much of a shock that divorce runs rampart throughout the country, but what should come as a shock is the intolerance that does.
in my case i fall in love with who i fall in love with no penis or vagina will change my feelings for that person. i dont really look at gender as having to tell me who i can and cant fall in love with. the only reason that you feel strongly about this subject is that it falls away from what you were taught is right. i bet if he cheated on you with a female that you would be pretty upset and then you would start talking to him again if a child was involved. it should be no diffrent if he chose a male as his next partner.

[Oni]

Truth be told, Oni, I sympathized with your ex from the beginning.  I was less disgusted by your story because you were smart enough to come out before you were married, but that was then I realized that what you did is high on my list of sins

So do I Rachael. but what's done is done. LOL. It was iether do it now or later, and the longer I waited the worse it would be. The only reason we were not married is well....we were engaged for 5 years. One of those lazy couples that never get around to getting married. LOL. Really we were. So you could say that I waited till we were married and ready to have kids to drop a bomb shell on her life. And she has ever reason in the world to dislike me. But the catch is, her and I have a child together. And so we need to get along for his sake. Part of being a parent. Is knowing whats best for your child, dispite your personal feelings.

[Im1ru1]

I see alot of discussion here about gays, and PARTICULARLY gay men...why isn't this being discussed including Lesbians, of which I know examples where they were married and then decided that they couldn't continue the "lie" and left their husband, and why aren't we discussing the issue with regard to "true" bisexuals (yes, I'm one of those that believe that bisexuals ACTUALLY exist). 
I think that either some here have the ability to completely ignore their feelings and live life as though it's all sunshine and roses regardless of their turmoil inside, or they think that others SHOULD be able to. 
For me the Coming Out process was VERY difficult...in high school, I dated one girl, for almost 4 years, we went to all of the dances together, we really were, in many senses of the word, at the time, Best Friends, and to some degree, she was my soul mate, for a time.  But there was a part of me that drew back, and we never "consumated" the relationship.  As my graduation from high school approached, I was in a situation in my family that was intolerable and I joined the Army.  We had discussed it, and the "plan" was that I would go to basic training, then Advanced training, and afterward, before being sent to my first duty station, we would get married.  Looking back, we were getting married because that was what was "expected" of us.  We didn't marry though, because while I was gone, she decided to join the Air Force.  We chose together, to put things on hold until we decided what to do with our lives, she met a wonderful man, and she's happy, and it was HER being happy that helped me to come out, so that I could be happy.  I truly believe  that I would have married her, had children with her, and loved her very much, but I'm not sure I would ever have been true to myself...


Herman

[Rachael]

Obviously, in my last post, I let my emotions get away with me.  When I came here again, I was surprised at how standing everyone was and that they didn't blow up at me.  I went to be angry and when I had woken up, I decided I should make another post, no matter how angry everyone might be.

I can never experience things from your point of view, and you can never experience things from the point of view of the person left for someone of the same sex.  In fact, I haven't experienced things from that point of view, either.  I only know how absolutely horrifying the idea is to me.

Maybe, in the end, this can all be attributed to penis envy.  I think there's some feelings of inadequacy involved when a man leaves a woman for another man.  Physically, men are more different from women than another woman could ever be.  Maybe, deep down, I still have issues of inferiority.  And the more I hear about men leaving their wives for other men, the more "certain" I am it will happen to me.  And as the fear increases, so does the anger for men who have done it.  Last night, when I read your post, Otokonoko_inu, I felt hostility toward you instead of empathy.  Now the hostility is gone, but my fear is not.

I'm sure a straight man would go through feelings of inadequacy as well, if his wife left him for another woman.  But because that's not a personal, deep fear of mine, my feelings toward women who do ti aren't as strong.  It's irrational and it's unfair, but such is human emotion.

That's no excuse for my last post, of course.  I'll need to reflect and do something about my fear and hate, before they tear me apart.  Negative feelings are normal, it's true, but not of this intensity.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

It's early (for me) and I didn't get much sleep, so please excuse me for a somewhat random reply with out-of-order quoting.

Truth be told, Oni, I sympathized with your ex from the beginning.  I was less disgusted by your story because you were smart enough to come out before you were married, but that was then I realized that what you did is high on my list of sins I could never forgive in my spouse.  Yes, I would shrivel up into a bitter old maid, distrusting and hateful of men--and maybe even gays--everywhere.  I would become the type of person I can't stand.

Add to the frustration the fact that I tried to teach this kid to behave with honor in his relationships since he was barely old enough to understand what relationships were; and that me, my wife, and his ex all had been telling him that he was closeted for years; and you might begin to understand why I ended my friendship with him over it.  To illustrate further:

It was iether do it now or later, and the longer I waited the worse it would be. The only reason we were not married is well....we were engaged for 5 years. One of those lazy couples that never get around to getting married. LOL. Really we were. So you could say that I waited till we were married and ready to have kids to drop a bomb shell on her life. And she has ever reason in the world to dislike me. But the catch is, her and I have a child together.

This was part of it right here.  The other parts were:

• You flew your seven months pregnant girlfriend out of the state by herself so that you could have an affair with a guy.  Not only do I think that women who are that far along in their pregnancy should not be traveling, but what would you have done if there had been a problem with the baby while she was away from you?  As if that wasn't bad enough, you did it for the most selfish of reasons.  Having an affair behind her back = injury; having it with a guy = insult.
  
  
• You essentially abandoned her when she needed you the most.  No fucking wonder she was asking for me during her labor.  I didn't go, by the way, because not only was I trying to force you to step up and take your proper place, but also I was nowhere near mentally prepared to deal with watching a woman who is not my wife give birth.  Hell, I had just found out my wife was pregnant a couple months before this went down, I was still getting used to the idea of having to go through it myself; there was no fucking way I was going to take your place at that time.

Part of being a parent. Is knowing whats best for your child, dispite your personal feelings.

In a nutshell, this is the reason for our renewed friendship.

You cannot always blame a guy for not coming out early in life, a lot of people are brain washed by their parents and church into thinking that they need to get married and have kids as soon as they move out of the house.  Believe me, 18 years of "hell-fire and damnnation, suck a **** and you will burn in the lake of fire forever" will do it's job, bury the real 'you'.

This country is full of such sheep, but don't expect me to believe that this makes it excusable to treat a spouse with such disrespect.  Nosce te ipsum.

I'm sure a straight man would go through feelings of inadequacy as well, if his wife left him for another woman.  But because that's not a personal, deep fear of mine, my feelings toward women who do ti aren't as strong.  It's irrational and it's unfair, but such is human emotion.

The difference is a woman would be hurt and offended, while a man would be hurt, offended, and fascinated.

Wife: "I want a divorce because I just realized I'm gay.  I prefer to be with women.  Please understand this is all me, and has nothing to do with anything you did or didn't do.  I'm sorry if I've hurt you."

Husband: "...Can I watch?"

...Okay, I was being tongue-in-cheek there.  If my wife had an affair with a woman and then told me about it to assuage her guilt, I'd probably let it go and forgive her for it.  But if she left me for a woman, I'd be pretty devastated and pissed as hell because she'd be abandoning our two-year-old daughter as well.  You just can't ask a toddler to understand why momma is leaving forever, no matter how you try they just won't get it.

[Goman Fox]

The first thing I'd like to point out Rachael is that in a way, I understand your fear.  I have a similar fear, one of the things I'm most afraid of actually (after heights, flying, being completely alone and various unpleasant ways of dying).  I'm extremely afraid that a guy I'm with will cheat on me with a woman.  For that reason, as unfair as it is, I openly admit that I discriminate against bisexuals when it comes to looking for a romantic relationship.

It is extremely unlikely that I would ever pursue a relationship with someone that I knew was bisexual, I would be constantly afraid of them doing something with a woman while I wasn't around.  This fear probably comes from my last relationship where the guy was bisexual and did sleep with a woman, and pretty much hid it from me until the woman's husband found out about it and he was afraid he'd be killed or something. >.>  Luckily for me, this was a long-distance relationship, so I didn't have to deal with that drama in person, and because of that, now I feel a bit more detached from that situation and not as bothered by it.  But it was still enough to instill that fear into me.  Yes Cat, Andrew is the one you can probably blame for a lot of the annoying qualities about me now.  He is the reason why I no longer blindly trust the person I'm with, and he's also the one that killed my romantic side.  

Anyways, back on topic, I understand your fear Rachael, but I don't really agree with your black and white interpretation of the situation.  I met an older gentleman online about a year ago and we exchanged emails for a few months.  He was in his late 60s, I believe, and told me stuff about his life, how he was gay, but due to expectations from his family and society, he married a woman after high school, then served in the military.  Not exactly the best environment to come out into.

While I don't think those pressures put on him really excuse him for marrying a woman when he was attracted to men, my point isn't in what he did when he was young, but what he did when he was older.  Obviously later during their marriage, he came out to his wife, but he still stayed with her.  Not because of some obligation he felt he had toward her or anything but because he actually did love her.  He may not have been attracted to women, but he still loved this one woman he had been married with.  From what he told me, they had a healthy relationship after that for years until she eventually found another man that was a better match for her.

I just think it's a bit unfair for you, Rachael, to make a generalization that all gay men that are in relationships with women are doing it only to meet expectations of others, or hide their sexuality.  There can be real feelings between the two, even if the man isn't attracted to women in general.  The older man I talked to had told me that even after coming out to his wife, they still had a normal, healthy relationship, including the sexual side.  He may have not been aroused by women, but it was more an act of love for him than lust.  But on the other side of the argument, it's definitely true that some, maybe even a lot, do it only for their own selfish reasons.

I'd think that this sort of thing is becoming less frequent nowadays though, at least with younger people.  I could understand it 40-50 years ago, when homosexuality was ignored in the media more than anything else.  I had a class a few years ago and the professor told us about her first experience in college when she had discovered what homosexuality was around the age of 20.  She wasn't gay, but she grew up in a small town where it was never discussed or anything, so she had reached adulthood without even knowing of the existence of homosexuality.  Just think of what that had to be like for someone that was gay, having these abnormal feelings for members of the same sex with no explanation given to you about why you were feeling this way.  I think a lot of the older homosexuals that are in straight relationships probably only did so because they didn't even know what homosexuality was until after they were married.  Some of your fear, Rachael, may be inflated a bit by hearing the stories of all these men that grew up in a different environment than you, coming out to their wives.

Nowadays, I don't see much of an excuse for people though, aside from those that grow up in rural areas.  In cities and such, homosexuality is all over the media now.  There's gay people in movies, in TV shows, even TV shows focused around gay people, gay stereotypes and gay culture.  Especially with the Internet, I just don't think it's as likely today for people to not know of homosexuality and such as it was before.  I could be wrong, but I think that because of that, it's less likely that gay men are marrying women nowadays.

I don't really know how those gay men think though, I was one of the lucky few that discovered my sexuality when I was in high school.  I knew, without a doubt, that I was gay by the time I was 15, and even years before that, I had a strong idea that I was.  Thanks to the Internet, I was actually able to make sense of my feelings and accept that I was gay, rather than feeling I needed to conform to what was "normal."  Hell, nowadays I think it's almost a fad in high schools for everyone to be "bisexual" (which, sadly, lowers my opinion of bisexuals because of all the kids running around claiming they're bisexual when they really aren't).  It's a lot easier today to be gay or bisexual than it probably was just a few decades ago.

[scooter]

I can never experience things from your point of view, and you can never experience things from the point of view of the person left for someone of the same sex.  In fact, I haven't experienced things from that point of view, either.  I only know how absolutely horrifying the idea is to me.

I feel this somewhat sums it up.  You may expect someone to live the lie for 50 years instead of getting out of it when he has come to terms with his true self.  I expect someone that is left in this situation to get over it at some point and move on with life.  Harsh?  Sure, but why mince words.

Expecting someone to live the lie for years, decades, or until you die so you don't have to feel rejected and experience some pain for a few months is truely selfish.

Also, in this day and age, in cities of 250,000+ in population it may seem like there is no reason to stay in the closet, but not everyone lives in big cities, there is a huge difference between populous locations and non populous locations when it comes to open minds and people being different.

[Rachael]

Ah Ben, you always were good at making me see the other side of things.  You have a gift for that, seriously.  You should...I dunno, be a mediator or something.  An online mediator.

I admit, I've been more sympathetic towards older men who grew up in the 50's or 60's and are just now coming out.  I suppose it's more difficult to sympathize with people in my time, my country, etc. because it seems like we have it so easy.  That's not always the reality, and it must be hell to have your parents constantly say to you, "When are you going to get married?  When are you going to give me some grandchildren?"  And I suppose the fear of burning in hell for all eternity might scare some gay people into marriage.

I'm worried those hateful feelings will build up again, but I think for now I can continue this conversation.

Scooter - I actually did say in an earlier post that I think it's equally selfish to force someone to stay in a relationship when they've come out to you.  Like Oni said, "If you love someone, you let them go."  What that little cliche fails to mention, though, is that letting go of someone you love is one of the hardest things to do.  If someone does let their out-of-the-closet spouse go, can we really blame them for feeling resentful at the same time?  For wishing their spouse had never said anything?

It's human nature.  Very few of us would be completely understanding and wish the person well without feeling the slightest bit of hurt or anger on our behalf.  We say we love our partner more than ourselves, but would we really want them to be happy at the cost of our own happiness?  Maybe yes, maybe no.

Also, keep in mind I haven't actually been in love with someone.  I have never been in any kind of relationship, let alone a committed one.  Maybe when I am, I will finally understand.  Maybe once I fall in love, I will think, "If he decides one day he prefers men, I will happily send him off with a smile and a wish for good luck."

But from what I've seen of relationships in real life, that's just not the case.  Most humans are not altruists.

[Oni]

I supose a better question would be....
What happens if your spouse says they can't be with you anymore (for what ever reason coming out, they love some one else, ect)

[Rachael]

I suppose in that case, I would be angry, but less so because when we did get married, at least then he loved and desired me.  We weren't living a lie for 15 or so years.

Unless that was the case, of course.  Then I'd brain him.

[lazydullard]

that would suck. but i got to know the person properly enough before marrying, then I would have known this already, and just be glad I got to stay with them the time I did, as I would knowingly continued the relationship. if I didn't know them properly enough, crap, my fault.

the worse effect would be all my friends joking that I turn girls lesbian.

[Im1ru1]

   I hadn't thought of that...

[Oni]

that would suck. but i got to know the person properly enough before marrying, then I would have known this already, and just be glad I got to stay with them the time I did, as I would knowingly continued the relationship. if I didn't know them properly enough, crap, my fault.

the worse effect would be all my friends joking that I turn girls lesbian.

Damn...well that's  just a good answer. LOL.