What do you think of this? [NSFW video link]

[Rachael]

This is a woman giving birth at home, without any outside help.

An unassisted childbirth

What is your opinion on this? Is it sensible or selfish of the mother? Would you do it?

I don't think it's a good idea personally.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Women did exactly this for many thousands of years, Rachael.  I haven't read the article (and don't intend to), but as long as she went to all of her prenatal appointments to make sure the baby was in good health and that there weren't likely to be any birth complications (i.e. breech position like we had with Rachel), then there's absolutely no reason why she shouldn't have had her baby at home on her own - especially if it wasn't her first one.

I dunno, in my experience child birth is a very private miracle, and the fact that it's now accepted as standard practice to strip a woman entirely of her modesty simply because she's having a baby speaks very poorly for our society.  If this woman wanted to keep a modicum of her modesty by staying home where some strange doctor couldn't shove his fingers all up in her every half an hour to check how dilated she was, then really that's her business.  If she and the baby both came out healthy, then so much the better.

Edit: That's a YOUTUBE link?!  The woman stayed home to have a baby, then posted a video of it on fucking YOUTUBE?!  Strike everything I said about respecing her privacy.  Obviously that wasn't the issue here.

[scooter]

Being born in a hospital is fairly new, Jimmy Carter was the first US President to have been born in one, all previous presidents were born at home (or elsewhere).

Having a baby in a US hospital isn't free, perhaps some just can't justify the cost when their dr doesn't anticipate problems.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

That's a good point, Scooter.  It's easy to forget about the $7,000 bill for our c-section baby when the state and my wife's insurance picked up the cost due to her being Alaska native.

Yes, I said $7,000.  For just the surgery.  "Room and board" for two days was an additional $2,000.

[Rachael]

Women did exactly this for many thousands of years, Rachael.  I haven't read the article (and don't intend to), but as long as she went to all of her prenatal appointments to make sure the baby was in good health and that there weren't likely to be any birth complications (i.e. breech position like we had with Rachel), then there's absolutely no reason why she shouldn't have had her baby at home on her own - especially if it wasn't her first one.

I dunno, in my experience child birth is a very private miracle, and the fact that it's now accepted as standard practice to strip a woman entirely of her modesty simply because she's having a baby speaks very poorly for our society.  If this woman wanted to keep a modicum of her modesty by staying home where some strange doctor couldn't shove his fingers all up in her every half an hour to check how dilated she was, then really that's her business.  If she and the baby both came out healthy, then so much the better.

Edit: That's a YOUTUBE link?!  The woman stayed home to have a baby, then posted a video of it on fucking YOUTUBE?!  Strike everything I said about respecing her privacy.  Obviously that wasn't the issue here.

The infant mortality rate also used to be a lot higher.  Of course, that doesn't mean it's gone down because of hospitals.

In fact, you may be right.  I've heard of a lot of birth complications that happened because of the incompetency of doctors or nurses.  But that's all just anecdata.  I fully admit I haven't done enough research on this subject.

I shouldn't have said it's not a good idea--what I should have said was that it's something I would never do personally.  I don't trust myself to do everything right.

That said, thanks for spelling my name right. I appreciate you making the effort to remember how my name's spelled, even though you have a daughter named Rachel.

[scooter]

That's a good point, Scooter.  It's easy to forget about the $7,000 bill for our c-section baby when the state and my wife's insurance picked up the cost due to her being Alaska native.

Yes, I said $7,000.  For just the surgery.  "Room and board" for two days was an additional $2,000.

Yea, but a c-section isn't something done at home... if there are problems, I would think that nobody would balk at paying 10k to make sure the mother and baby live...

[scooter]

The infant mortality rate also used to be a lot higher.  Of course, that doesn't mean it's gone down because of hospitals.

Tho having a baby in a hospital allows for emergency situations, they are not always needed.  I would attribute most of the increase in mortality rates to...

A. Hand Washing - The advent of dr's and midwives washing their hands in the 1840's provided the #1 greatest increase to survival... go figure, a Dr. would go from an autopsy of a highly contagious corpse to a delivery without cleaning up or changing...  of course, until recently they did it with a cigarette hanging out of their mouth :-p

B. Prenatal care - Education & health checks, ensuring the future mother has a good diet, doesn't drink/smoke/etc...

[vapor]

$7000 for a C-section   That's a bargain  price.  all of my 3 children were C  the last two we had insurance so i never did total up things just passed the bills on, but they pretty much lined up with the first. The first one was 10K at Fairbanks memorial H, 17 years ago.

when my then wife started having trouble dilating after 12 hours and the babe was in the canal not getting oxygen  The nurse stated the obvious." You can wait to see if it can be natural but that will put enormous stress on mother and child.  There is no real point to that."

we were in the hospital so the c section happened within minutes of that decision.

So just what is the point?

how many time are you going to ask yourself "Why Didnt I." after something goes wrong?

How many times will loved ones ask "Why "

not having at least a partner/midwife to keep an eye on both mother and baby is just not a good idea.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

The infant mortality rate also used to be a lot higher.  Of course, that doesn't mean it's gone down because of hospitals.

In fact, you may be right.  I've heard of a lot of birth complications that happened because of the incompetency of doctors or nurses.  But that's all just anecdata.  I fully admit I haven't done enough research on this subject.

I shouldn't have said it's not a good idea--what I should have said was that it's something I would never do personally.  I don't trust myself to do everything right.

That said, thanks for spelling my name right. I appreciate you making the effort to remember how my name's spelled, even though you have a daughter named Rachel.

Nothing is without its risk of complication.  My wife had to have her incision reopened a week after the c-section surgery because of a subdermal hematoma caused by a blood vessel that the surgeon didn't cauterize during the surgery.  *shrug* It's in the past now, but missing that vessel during the stress of a midnight emergency c-section caused us the stress of four months of waiting for the open wound (all the way down to the fascia - this is a deep wound) at Millie's waist to close up on its own, with daily or twice daily dressing changes by an in-home visit by a nurse (because I was waaaaaay to squeamish to do it myself).

Good idea or not, it was her decision to make with her body and her baby.  You can get into the morality of risking the baby's life like that if you want to, but the fact you can't ignore is that while that baby is part of her body she is the only person who is responsible for its well-being; so any choices regarding that are hers and hers alone to make.  Again, I didn't watch that video because I've done my time in the child birth arena and have no interest in seeing anyone else's, but I'm of the opinion that the fact that the baby in question wasn't mine means that that I have no call to pass any kind of judgment on that woman's decision.

And hey, if they're both healthy, what does how it came into this world matter?

You know, when we decided to name our daughter, we deliberately chose the simplest spelling "Rachel" to avoid people constantly misspelling her name.  We should've known better, because people are forever spelling it with the Old Testament spelling of "Rachael."  So you might say that I am in a position to be poignantly aware of the difference between the spellings and the amount of carelessness shown by people who misspell your name.

Yea, but a c-section isn't something done at home... if there are problems, I would think that nobody would balk at paying 10k to make sure the mother and baby live...

No, you're right, this isn't something that's done at home, and there are public assistance programs like Denali Kid Care to help ease some of that financial pressure on the new parents.

$7000 for a C-section   That's a bargain  price.  all of my 3 children were C  the last two we had insurance so i never did total up things just passed the bills on, but they pretty much lined up with the first. The first one was 10K at Fairbanks memorial H, 17 years ago.

when my then wife started having trouble dilating after 12 hours and the babe was in the canal not getting oxygen  The nurse stated the obvious." You can wait to see if it can be natural but that will put enormous stress on mother and child.  There is no real point to that."

we were in the hospital so the c section happened within minutes of that decision.

So just what is the point?

Bargain?  What if you don't have insurance and can't afford to pay through the nose like that?  Not everyone has medical insurance, you know.  Like me, for example.  No insurance of any kind, and I'm as white as it gets, so if I'm hospitalized for any reason, we're pretty fucked.  I'm not going to get into the morality of America's health system here, but I will point out that, as mentioned before, having a baby in a hospital is not free of charge and not everyone can afford to pay the kind of money these hospitals want just to deliver a baby.

not having at least a partner/midwife to keep an eye on both mother and baby is just not a good idea.

That much I agree with, the profession of midwife is arguably the second oldest in the world, and there's absolutely no reason not to have one present at an in-home birth just in case.  They don't cost anywhere near as much as "room and board" in a hospital. 

I just watched the first few seconds of that video link, and I gotta say I'm every bit as disgusted by it as I expected to be.  The kinds of things people do and record videos of just to "get famous" on YouTube with is downright repugnant.  One word is not strong enough to express how disgusting I find this behavior to be, so click the link and pick out a few others - they all apply here.

Rachael: please don't be offended, but I edited your OP to point out the not-safe-for-work nature of the video.

[Rachael]

Good idea or not, it was her decision to make with her body and her baby.  You can get into the morality of risking the baby's life like that if you want to, but the fact you can't ignore is that while that baby is part of her body she is the only person who is responsible for its well-being; so any choices regarding that are hers and hers alone to make.  Again, I didn't watch that video because I've done my time in the child birth arena and have no interest in seeing anyone else's, but I'm of the opinion that the fact that the baby in question wasn't mine means that that I have no call to pass any kind of judgment on that woman's decision.

You're totally right.  Even when I said it wasn't a good idea, I knew it would be wrong to pass judgment on a woman's decision over something so personal.  To tell the truth, I'm not too sure what I think of it now.  Like abortion, I think it's best that the decision is left to the mother, and I would never condemn a woman for doing something that I personally wouldn't (except infanticide, but that's something else altogether :p).

I just watched the first few seconds of that video link, and I gotta say I'm every bit as disgusted by it as I expected to be.  The kinds of things people do and record videos of just to "get famous" on YouTube with is downright repugnant.  One word is not strong enough to express how disgusting I find this behavior to be, so click the link and pick out a few others - they all apply here.

Haha!  I must say I really didn't get that feeling at all.  I thought it was amazing, beautiful even.  People post videos for different reasons, and hers might have been to educate.  Or maybe it was just part of a video blog initially.  Anyway, I doubt the reason she did it or even recorded it was to "get famous."  Lots of families record the mother giving birth, and it's possible someone said to her, "Hey, you should upload this to YouTube, since not a lot of women give birth completely unassisted."

Rachael: please don't be offended, but I edited your OP to point out the not-safe-for-work nature of the video.

Oops!  I meant to make a note that the video probably wasn't safe for work. D: Sorry about that!

[Taylor-MadeAK]

I bet if you ask around, Rachael, you'll find that in most (if not all) cases where the birth is video taped, it's because the father insisted upon it.  I know both my own mother and my wife would have killed anyone bringing a video camera to the event.

Put yourself in those shoes.  If you were giving birth, would you want to go on permanent record in full-color glory in the absolute most vulnerable moment of your life?  How about having said video of your naked pelvis pushing a watermelon through a hole that was once the size of a quarter through it posted on the internet where millions of people can view and comment on it?  This is not a normal thing to do.

See, there I go passing judgment and sh**.  /sigh  This is such a sensitive issue, I really should stop replying to this thread before I piss somebody off. ~.~

Oh, this got me to wondering:

omg why was she slone?
very brave

Her family was there, but she prefers to catch her babies herself.

Who is this person?  How many kids has she given birth to?  Why in the world would she allow a video of it to be put up on the internet?

After doing a little bit of research, I find that this video is her fourth baby (some people like big families, I guess).  So, she's definitely experienced with giving birth, and the chance of complications that arise from "breaking in the equipment" so to speak is pretty slim.  The video is definitely an attention getting device, but evidently not solely for her personally.  They want attention for the "Unassisted Birth Movement," and judging by this thread and thousands of others like it, they're getting exactly that.

But "unassisted" doesn't mean alone.  Her family was there, and if her husband is knowledgeable enough to act as her midwife and is prepared to rush her to a hospital should something go horribly wrong, then I don't see a darn thing wrong with it.

[alaskarain]

I don't seen nothing at all wrong with her giving birth at home, like someone else said women have been spitting  out youngens at home for centuries, in work fields, caves. Nothing about it makes her selfish.

[Oni]

I was there for my D'mitri's Birth. It was both the most wonderful thing in the world, and also the most scariest thing in the world. Especially when I cut the cord. I can't speak for D'mitri's mother, but that was defently something that we wanted to keep private, and not share with the world. We share the wonders of birth with the world, through D'mitri, not through how he was born.

[Rachael]

I should probably clear something up.  I did say I didn't think giving birth unassisted was a good idea, but I never thought it was selfish.  It's her baby and her choice.

And no, I definitely would not want someone taking a video of me while I'm giving birth.  But some women do, for whatever reason.

I actually thought birth was a pretty straightforward thing.  But apparently there are many variations on how women do it.

Like this. (I don't know if the video on the site is worksafe--it didn't play on my computer.)

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Yeah, um, no...birth is anything but straightforward.  You'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about that subject if/when you start planning for your first child (assuming you DO plan, like we did).