Religious Discussion: Asatru (Odinism): Norse Heathenism

[Eternimus]

Asatru has been around much longer than Christianity. Because this church is supposed to be open to ideals, not neccesarily Christan, but generally good, I figured I would test the religious tolerance of the curch. I will randomly post a new topic about another religion and see your take on it.

Asatru has been around alot longer than Christianity. And there are even some similarities between the two. Like Odin, the All-Father, head god akin to Zeus or Jupiter, was stapled to a tree, with his own spear. I'm not going to bother to go into ALL the similarities. We'd be here all day. However I will ask if any of you knew that J.R.R. Tolkien designed Gandalf the Grey after Odin? After one of his forms, the Wanderer, who was commonly seen as an old man with a long greying beard and grey garb, carrying a long walking stick. I think that was pretty cool of Tolkien.

There are nine worlds, divided into 3 layers, and they are all connected by the World Tree, Yggdrasil.

The Upper Level

    * Asgard - Located at the very top of Yggdrasil, Asgard is the home of two races of Gods, the Aesir and the Vanir. All of the Gods in Asgard have their own great halls. The greatest of them is Valhalla, the hall for slain heroes.
    * Vanaheim - The Vanir lived in this realm while they were at war with the Aesir. Since the Gods made peace, the Vanir have lived in Asgard.
    * Alfheim - The land of the light elves.

The Middle Level

    * Midgard - This is the realm that we all know, the land of Earth and mankind.
      There is a bridge of a rainbow between Midgard and Asgard, called Bifrost.
    * Jotenheim - An icy land of the frost giants.
    * Nidavellir - Realm of the dwarves.
    * Svartalfheim - Land of dark elves.
    * Muspelheim - The fire giants live here, and it is one of these giants that will set the world ablaze at Ragnarok.

The Lower Level

    * Niflheim - The roots of Yggdrasil emerge in this cold and dark underworld. The goddess Hel rules here, from her hall Eljudnir. Sometimes this realm is actually called Hel, and some sources consider Niflheim and Hel to be two distinct lands of the underwold.

Even within these nine worlds, there are further details of places, regions and halls to fill out the full map of Norse mythology.

Ok. Let's see what you guys want to add. There's alot.

[Oni]

Ah yesh the wonderful thing about opening up to the outside world. You find people who are wanting to test you, your faith, or your idea’s. That depending on your religious belief preference is why we are here. To be tested. If we pass we get into the shiny gates of Heaven, if we fail…well…good ol fire and brim stone. YAY.
Though what you have to say, I don’t view as a test, more as offering out information that we may not have already have. And is that not one of the many reasons we are alive. To learn, and aspire to be more than we already are.
I do find it interesting that you bring up a religion that is older than Christianity. Though it is also true that there are not many followers of the old ways/and religions any more. By old of course I mean pre-christianity. There are quite a few if you count the number, but I am sure the percentage of the masses are far less than what they use to be. I find a lot of the old idea’s and myths to be a lot  more organized and less troublesome than say Christianity. For example with Christianity (though I suppose you could use this argument for a lot of religions, hense why it comes down to the individual) the bible has been taken in so many way, translated, taken out of context, verses pulled from different parts of the bible and taken out of context, all to create a personal idea of what God wants. Each person has there own view of there God and what they want.
I feel that with a lot of the older religions it was much more simpler than say christanity. Back than it was as simple as lead a good and honorable life and you get in. Today not so simple.
I like the idea of a logical faith. Though that is a contritory right there, logic and faith can’t really go hand in hand. What I mean by a logical faith is if you took every religion, idea, and or belief in the world, stuck them all in a pot and sorted them out logically, you would come to a better understanding, and learn new things every time you started sorting, but you would also learn that when it comes down to it. It does not matter what religion you are, in the core idea’s everyone wants to strive to be better than they are wether it be in a good way or a bad way. God’s are just one way to help human kind travel that path. 
So for some people the Asatru might be the way they need to follow to lead a good life, and help them down the path to better them selfs. It may not work for me, but if it works for you, that is great.

I am sure people will enjoy your input on different religions and beliefs, and comment on them. If nothing else you are filling us with information, and that is something that everyone needs more of.

[Oni]

I would like to hear more about your beliefs and Religion. Would you mind posting them? You have sparked my interest. And it will help others to better understand your faith.

[Rachael]

Asatru rules!  I'm something of an expert on the religion.

That's the religion with the valkyries, right?  There were three of them: Lenneth, Hrist, and Silmeria.  They sent einherjar to Valhalla, but Lenneth and Silmeria found out that Surt, leader of the Vanir, was actually a peaceful kind and Odin was evil.  So they rebelled, but Hrist remained faithful, blindly following his every order.  Also, this occurred in two different timelines.  In the past, an evil--and incredibly sexy--sorcerer named Lezard absorbed Odin's soul and screwed up the future portrayed in...

...oh, wait, I'm thinking of what happened in the Valkyrie Profile games.

Seriously, though, I do know some stuff about Asatru, although not nearly as much I'd like to know.  I know that Odin had only one eye, that there were lots of valkyries, that Loki refused to weep for Baldur so he couldn't come back to life, and that the afterlife for warriors consisted solely of fighting all day and feasting in the evening.

I absolutely LOVE hearing about other religions and mythology.  So, as Oni said, inform away!

[Goman Fox]

I'm really curious about this subject too and would love to read more about it.  I've seen it vaguely referenced in a lot of games that I've played before, as well as TV shows and such, but really nothing that I would consider decent information.  I've always found polytheistic religions to be really interesting, so it'd be great to read more about it from someone who knows it pretty well.  It's always better to hear information from a person than a book or something.  Different written "voice" or something I guess, makes it easier to absorb information I guess.

[Eternimus]

This could take quite awhile. So I'll add a few things here and there. This is just from knowledge I have procured over the years, and if you find a discrepency, by all means, let me know.

Between Muspelheim (The Land of Fire) and Niflheim (The Land of Ice) was a hole, Ginnungigap. The fire and ice moved towards each other; when they collided, the universe came into being. (Big Bang Theory, anyone?) Odin, Vili and Ve made the world from the body of a giant that they had slain. According to legend, our world, earth, midgard, was made from the body of the first created being, the giant Aurgelmir, or Ymir. The gods killed him and rolled his body into the central void of the universe, where Niflheim and Muspelheim originally collided, forming the land from his flesh, the oceans from his blood, the mountains from his bones, you get the idea. Aurgelmir's skull, held up by four dwarves, became the dome of the heavens. The sun, moon, and stars were made of scattered sparks caught in the skull. Three brothers, Odin, Vili and Ve created humanity. They used trees. The first man was Aask, the first woman was Embla. They were the basis for all humanity, much like Adam and Eve (A and E, huh?) is for Christianity. Later on, a deity named Rig came to earth and made social classes.

And that is the origin of Humanity, the universe, and our world. According to Asatru.

[Rachael]

Weren't humans formed from brain maggots or something?

[Eternimus]

~LOL~ Brain maggots? What? I've never heard that... anywhere. What do you read?

[Oni]

YAY I am some gaints Brain Maggot

[Eternimus]

Okay now that hings have settled around here, it's time I added more to expand this topic. I read over it and I will add a few things from past comments.

1) Valkyrie Profile is BULLSHIT. It's a good game, but please, don't try to take it as an accurate account of Asatru. Same with Odin Sphere. The games themselves are very cool, and the premise is nice, but their folklore is totally askew. This is for everybody. If you say you know about VP and that's why you know so much on Asatru, you will be very mistaken. As a joke is fine, long as you aren't serious.

2) Odin had one eye, yes. But that was because he sacrificed his vanity for the wisdom of ages. There was a fountain below the roots of Yggdrasil. At the place where sea and sky meet. It was guarded by a giant named Mimir. This was before the start of the Aesir-Vanir war. Mimir guarded this well, but Odin's ravens told him of it. Odin was a very proud god, and was rumored to be very handsome. Lord Odin knew that as powerful as he was, and though his eyes could see all, he did not know all. Odin offered whatever payment was required, because it was something that was needed. Mimir said if Odin wanted the prize, the payment was one of his sapphire, all-seeing eyes. Odin was upset, but he plucked one of his own eyes out and dropped it into the limitless depths of Mimir's well. Completely shocked, Mimir gave Odin his prize.

How many people could muster the strength to pull out their own friggin eye just to be smarter? And not for himself. To council the rest of the people and help them learn and grow.

3) I looked into the "Brain Maggot" thing, because I personally had never heard of that myth. It's supposedly how the dwarves were formed. It wasn't brains, though. It was the blood and bones of Ymir, and the maggots thereof.

4) Since Valkyrie Profile was brought up, there are more than 3 valkyries.

Brynhildr: "Byrnie of battle.",
Hildr: "Battle.",
Sigrdrífa: "She who bring victory.",
Sigrún: "Wise in the mysteries of victory.",
Sváva "Suebian", a tribe.
Ölrún: "Wise in the mysteries of Ale." (TM's Valkyrie.)
Thrúd, daughter of Thor. Her name means "strength".

On top of that there are EVEN MORE names of Valkyries, "Choosers of the Fallen", in various stories, folklore, and prose from ancient poets and priests. The Valkyrie are just a group of female soldiers who bring the dead to Valhalla if they deserve it. Think "Female Grim Reaper" for real warriors. Or whatever was needed at the time.

Any other questions?

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Valkyrie Profile is BULLSHIT. It's a good game, but please, don't try to take it as an accurate account of Asatru. Same with Odin Sphere.

Same with Too Human.

[Eternimus]

Never played it.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Nor have I, it's really new.  I've read the reviews, though, and they're pretty much unanimous about the game getting the Norse mythology wrong on several accounts.

[Northtrax]

I would argue that Odinism and Asatru are two different things.  Some people follow Odin above all other gods, but it's not a hard and fast rule.
Asatru can be practiced as Odinism, and Odin is probably the most powerful of the Norse gods, but many people in Asatru feel closer to Frigga, Thor, Tyr(/Tiw), Frey, Freya, Njord, or any number of others.  It's somewhat comparable to having a favorite teacher in school, or liking a particular player on a sports team.  You root for the team, but you wear THEIR number.
Personally I feel closest to Odin, Tyr, and Freya.

RE: Eternimus
You're Asatru?  Awesome.  Where in Alaska do you live? 

RE: What Oni said about logic and faith.  No, faith isn't logical, but neither is it logical to belong to one religion when you believe in another. 
My own experience with Asatru was that some other religions made a certain amount of sense to me, but while I was learning about the Runes something just clicked (though not everyone in Asatru is into the Runes either).  I don't normally take anything on faith, but my instincts tell me this Norse stuff is right, and I don't feel it's logical to ignore that.
With that said, I firmly believe that Asatru is not a religion that could work for everyone on earth.  It sort of finds you.  Or not.

RE: Ask and Embla vs. Adam and Eve, I don't think all of the Norse god stories are meant to be taken literally.  We're talking about a culture that loves riddles, cleverness and poetry right along with honor, battle, and international trade.
Or A&E could have been a simple translation error.  What if the line actually read 'two PEOPLES' were created, meaning two nations of Humans?

RE: The Gandalf comparison, the 'old man' and 'the gray wanderer' are two of Odin's guises, true enough.  What's less generally known is that like his blood brother Loki, Odin is a true shape shifter.
In the story of Gunnlod and the mead of poetry for example, Odin changes into a snake to get through a hole in the wall, then into a handsome young man.

RE: Games with Norse stuff in them, 'Age of Mythology: The Titans' had a sprinkling of accuracy with the cultural details, but their descriptions of the gods and goddesses were further off base.
The 'Ultima' series used Runes extensively, and in 'Ultima 6' all the maps and road signs are written using a nearly accurate form of the younger Futhark (Runic letters).
---
The reason half this Norse stuff might sound familiar is because it IS.

For example...
Tuesday: Tiw, god of justice and one of the sky gods.
Wednesday: Odin (Wotan) nuff said.
Thursday: Thor, god of the working man and slayer of many giants.
Friday: Freya, goddess of beauty and battle.
Sunday: Sunna, goddess of the sun.

Read an electrical circuit diagram.  Several runes are in common use as symbols to describe the flow of current.

Look at the Bluetooth logo.  It's a BINDRUNE (Runes combined to create an effect).

Or think of the Ulfsarks and Bersarks (origin of the word 'berserk').  Translated, those two words would be 'Wolf-shirts' and 'Bear-shirts'.
...Which is interesting, considering Odin hung out with two wolves and two ravens, Freya kept cats and had a special suit of falcon feathers that let her fly, Thor's chariot was drawn by billy-goats, Odin's horse Slepnir was Loki's SON, Freya changed one of her followers into a boar and used HIM for a mount, etc, etc.
-Furries much?

Watch 'Reign of Fire', then tell me who the Valkyrie was.

My point is, these stories are baked into our collective cultural unconscious.  Fragmented, encoded, buried just deep enough to survive the religious censorship of the past millennium, yet somehow...  still remembered.

Damn I love this topic.
--
Oh yeah, reading list for anyone interested:
The Poetic Edda, by Snorri Sturluson (the translation by Lee M. Hollander's not bad)
Futhark, by Edred Thorrson
Taking up the Runes, By Diana Paxson
-Please- don't take anything written by Ralph H. Blum seriously.  He means well, but he doesn't really KNOW much.

[Zev The Dog]

I'm sure you've heard of Secret of the Runes in 01' by Therion; they released this album with tracks dedicated to each world in Norse mythology. There is a track for Nilfheim, Jotunheim, etc etc.

I gotta say, it damn near makes me wish I was a viking, but i'll have to settle with being a Chaim Yankele

Oy....