Christianity, Islam, and war

[Rachael]

There is a very opinionated woman in my literature class who is always looking for a good, old-fashioned, hot-headed argument.  Most of the people in our class are either too timid or just don't care enough to take up the challenge.  I've been the same, or at least I agree with most of what she says...until now.

She's made attacks on Christianity before, which I chose to ignore because I just didn't feel like dealing with it.  However, this time, she crossed the line by saying something along the lines of:

1) Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the most war-loving religions;
2) they fight because of, not in spite of, their religions;
3) humans will continue to wage war until they stop basing their lives on this "crap." (Yes, she really said "crap.")

She also stated that the things done in the Old Testament made "Nazi Germany look like Disneyland," which I felt was quite an exaggeration.  I was offended by her calling my religion "crap," and feel that she was focusing too much on the religious aspect of war.

I do not believe that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or really any religion encourages people to go to war.  Rather, I believe the teachings of the great masters of religion have been perverted by other people to serve their own means.

I want to bring this up in the next class, but I need to prepare myself so that I don't look stupid, and I need to hear opinions from both sides.  Also, any information that will help me either argue my point or reconsider it would be much appreciated.

And since this is a discussion board...

Christians - Are you anti-war, or do you believe it is justifiable in some cases? (Note: This does not make you a war-mongerer.)
How would you react to this woman's statement?

Everyone - Would you agree with this woman's statement?
Do you think religious teachings have been corrupted?
Am I overreacting?

Honestly, even leaving out the Christians, the Jewish people are some of the kindest, most tolerant people I've heard about...

[Oni]

From my observations. Any one who has a strong belief in something will fight for it. Even more so when it goes against there God. Look at your reaction. It is anger, and you are wanting to fight back. Even though it is not in a violent way, you are wanting to fight back and defend yourself. And this is why I think an IDEA is much better to have then a BELIEF or a RELIGION. Idea’s can change, for some reason, a belief of a religion can not with out a war and a victor.

What is wrong with her views of Christianity? They are her views and everyone is allowed to have them. That is call freedom of belief. Just cause she thinks differently from you does not mean you should attack back. Do you feel that your beliefs are challenged by what she says?

Any religion has a bit of war to it. That’s part of it. If you have a community you must have a way of defending it. And what better way to defent it, then by justifying your actions by a GOD? So ya they fight because of there religion, and because they belief it is the right thing to do.

Though it is not fair for her to assume that all Christians are that way. But it is a general statement. You are not responsibly for the actions of the Christians of your past. You are responsible for you now. And as such have the responsibility to uphold your teachings to the best of your abilities. “As we forgive those who trespass against us.” She has trespassed on your idea’s and beliefs. And your teachings say to forgive, not fight.

Humans will continue to wage war till the end of time. Because one man beliefs he has a bigger D*** than his neibor, and has to prove it.

One should point out that God Flooded the whole world and killed all but Noah and his family. I do belief god killed those he thought were lesser beings, those that were not disirving to be saved. The Nazi’s did the same. Killed the lesser beings, those that were not of there perfect view of what a human should be.

As far as them waging war untill they stop basing there lifes on this crap (religion) that is most likely true. But one has to decide for ones self what there PERSONAL religion is. You may be Christian but you have your own beliefs that differ from other Christians. If you only base your idea’s in Christianity then you can life a morally good life. But if you follow the bible to a T then… well then you will be a rather cofused indivudal.

In just about every war you could trace it back to how one views there religion. God will for ever be the reason for war, and through that the cause of war. But he is also love, and the reason for peace. Wars are a continual way of life. What you are wanting to do is fight back. Is that not a battle as well, even though it is verbal. You want to defend your beliefs, and what you stand for and while you do that, make her look stupid.

Nobody knows the original teachings of the great masters. And through such there teachings are the cause of war. That is why one must have there own personal idea. People will fight to defend what they belief is right. Even though they know that fighting is not always right. Defend your loved ones and your life. But most fights are trivial and pointless. No reason for getting into them. You can not force some one to believe a way you do. For example with the gay rights bit. We cant force the other religions to recognize our marrages, and insurance rights. We can only try and get them. It should not be a battle of religion…but it is.

I admire you for wanting to fight for what you belief in, and getting a back ground on it. But I would tread softly. Religion and politics are things that should never be brought into a battle. You fight because you have to not because you want to.

All religions are corrupt. That is what I feel. Even my own teachings that I teach others are corrupted from there original meaning. Because they are influnced by myself and my own personal will, even when I am not aware of it. What people get from me will be my translation of the teachings that were passed down to me by one of my teachers.

You are acting in the only way you know how, and as long as you battle with honor and respect then I see nothing wrong with it. But never disrespect, or dishonor your adversary, or you will loose.

[Rachael]

I understand what you're saying, and I don't want to make her look stupid or belittle her.  I'm actually giving her what she wants: a debate.

It's physical violence I'm against, not the "violence" that comes from arguing.  I know that mental, emotional, spiritual, and psychological violence can be equally damaging, but that's not what I'm seeking to do.  I'm determined not to resort to any personal attacks or name-calling, and I'm sure she won't, either.

The doctrine of forgiveness does not mean I cannot correct my neighbor if she says something I find to be hurtful and rude.  I don't even necessarily want to prove her wrong; I just would like her to know that I don't appreciate things like that, and if she's looking for a debate, she's going to get one.

You know me well. :p You know I'm a hothead when defending my position and that it's easy for me to get angry when the right buttons are pushed.  I'll try to remember your advice.

[Kritter]

Damn, I had a nice reply to your post and my work computer decided to die on me while I was almost finished with it.  Shoot. Well, the computer is fixed now so I will try to regurgitate what I said prior. Here goes:

Even though what the lady said was not appropriate/respectable to just go off and basically offend some major religions, in MY opinion, I think what she said (on Christians) was somewhat truthful. Why, because if you take a look back in time, that was what the Christians have done. I will only mention Christianality because that is the only religion I was brought up and have knowledge over. *cough* Now, when the Christians first arrived to the New World, they have massacred hundreds and possibly thousands natives throughout the continent. Now I am not mentioning about the British folks who sailed to Plymouth (though they have killed so called ‘witches’ and natives in the name of God). So you can say they had a killing spree to whoever was considered ‘savages’. Course the ones who were not killed, were forced to convert.

Course in the here and now, none of the Christian are responsible for what happened in the past. Just move on.

If we take a look at a Biblical view point- more so on the Old Testament- there were many battles/fights over for God. Some God himself supported. For me, God during the Old Testament seemed to be quite an angry God. One of his wraths that came to mind was when he sent two of his angles down to a city and see if there were any good. The angles only found a family that was good so they told the family to leave the city and not look back. The angels or God not too sure who basically destroyed the entire city. Sadly one of the family member (the wife I believe) actually looked back and she was killed (turned to stone a course but she did died).

Now on the New Testament, I can’t really say/ remember of any so called battles/fights. It was more about His son on earth. But yeah.

Ok I am not remembering much on what I said so I will end it here. Hope it was somewhat useful. 

[Oni]

Rachael. What did you end up doing?

[Rachael]

Actually, I overslept...but even if I hadn't, I probably would have chickened out.

[Oni]

So then what was your plan?

[Rachael]

Didn't have one.  I'd already given up.

[Oni]

Well glad we were able to help you vent at least.