Can of worms

[Oni]

What do you guys think of these diseases and why

AIDS
Harpies
ADD
ADHD
Alcoholism
Bad Parenting
Sex with Monkeys
OHBeastaliality (obesity)
Going to the rubber room farm for an anxiety attack
Sex ahoholics

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Harpies

...This is a disease?!  Since when?

Bad Parenting
Sex with Monkeys
OHBeastaliality (obesity)
Going to the rubber room farm for an anxiety attack

These are diseases?  By whose definition?

Dude, lay off the StumbleUpon.  Or the crack.  Or the booze.  Or all three.

[Oni]

Ah Subtly



That looks like a fricken disease to me

And something I killed in D&D last week.

What shall we kill this week.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

There's something wrong with you, Oni.  I mean beyond being Canadian, that is.

[Oni]

Ya but I don't even think this website could hold that list.

Though Seriously

I get a kick out of the amount of children that are diagnosed with ADD or better yet ADHD. I think a lot of it is just lazy bad parenting. Lets give our kids drugs so we don't have to tend to them. Granted it's not all that bad of a plan. But still. I have no doubt its a real disorder, I just think it's over diagnosed.

Same with Alcoholism.

I don't have a problem with drinking. I can do it just fine.

And as far as  obesity... well like ADD or ADHD it's mostly just people being lazy. Ya there are some people that really have it. But for the most part, I think it's just people don't want to tend to there body so it's easier to say they are fat because they don't have a choice.

Quote of the day.

I drink there for I am.

[Eternimus]

What do you guys think of these diseases and why

AIDS
Harpies
ADD
ADHD
Alcoholism
Bad Parenting
Sex with Monkeys
OHBeastaliality (obesity)
Going to the rubber room farm for an anxiety attack
Sex ahoholics

I'll answer your list.

1) AIDS sucks. I don't think it was started by homosexual activity, I think it's just nature deciding to f*** us up. But it sucks, and I'm not afraid of people with AIDS. I actually feel bad for em.

2) Harpies? You're retarded.

3) ADD/ADHD is a crock of sh**. It's just a way for parents to get an okay to drug up their offspring so they don't have to actually be parents. Your kid won't pay attention? The back of your hand will fix that real fast, and you don't need a prescription.

4) Alcoholism I don't consider a disease. I consider it a flaw. You have to be very weak, with no self control, to be addicted to something like that. All it takes is a simple no. Alcoholics need to learn that.

5) Bad parenting isn't a disease. It's an epidemic. But it's a sub category of a very serious problem. International stupidity.

6) Sex with monkeys? WTF? That is not a disease either. It's just taking "spanking the monkey" way too literally. See #5, as it's another sub category.

7) Obesity is not a disease. It's people not willing to put the fork down. Granted, some people have a genetic flaw. But the bulk of the populace uses it as an excuse to be a fat ass and have people be nice about it. I'm fat. Got a problem with it? f*** you. If you're fat, fine. Be fat. But don't whine about a genetic problem, or being addicted to food or whatever. Just put the fork down. That's all. Also, run around the block if you want to fix it faster.

An anxiety attack is little more than someone trying to get attention. As with obesity, there are some genetic factors. But also as with obesity for the most part it's basically some yo-yo trying to get attention, or get out of a bad situation so they can come up with a better answer. Being unable to deal with a situation does not cause an anxiety attack. Hell most of the people I know that have had em simply couldn't deal with the situation, or being alone, so they faked that to get people's sympathy. Very sad, and it's a mental disorder. A sub category of being an idiot.

9) Sexaholics? Awesome.

[scooter]

7) Obesity is not a disease. It's people not willing to put the fork down.

It's true the Obesity is not a disease, but it's not the fork that's the problem, it's the quality of food.  Quit soda and McDonalds (and other fast food) and start eating better food and you'll loose weight...

[Goman Fox]

Oni was being retarded when he wrote up this list the other night.  We had some people over and were talking about "bullshit diseases" and we thought it'd be a good topic on the forum... except Oni went one step further and put a bunch of other things on there too.  AIDS?  Oh yeah, those people dying from it must be faking it, right?

Anyways, the only ones I really see as being a "bullshit" disease, are ADHD, Alcoholism and Obesity.

Starting with ADHD, I do believe that it may actually be a disease, but the "bullshit" portion of it comes from the eagerness of parents to claim their kids have it just because they don't want to be a good parent.  It's so much easier to not-watch your kids when they're docile and not doing anything.  But the question I have to ask everyone is what they think about adult ADHD?  Yeah, a kid running around, not paying attention to adults and not wanting to do boring things like schoolwork is normal for most kids, but what's going on when an adult has those problems?

Even though I'm sure plenty of people might not see it as an actual disorder, I'm hoping the responses here aren't "They should just focus and do it instead of having problems."  That'd be like telling Oni that his bad memory is his own fault and he should "Just start remembering things."

On to Alcoholism.  I see it about in the same way as I see many organized religions.  Weak people become dependent on it when they can't handle life.  It's not a disease to "need" alcohol all the time, it's a personal choice to go to the bottle instead of trying to solve the problem they're trying to avoid by drinking.

Although I'm not sure exactly what defines an alcoholic.  A person can drink every day and not be an alcoholic, like if they enjoy a beer or glass of wine in the evenings or something.  A person could also go out to a party occasionally and get trashed and I wouldn't consider them an alcoholic, unless they were doing it regularly.  I think the few things I really see as "signs" of alcoholism would be drinking in excess alone (meaning if you're drinking by yourself past the point of getting buzzed) or when you get upset when you can't have alcohol in a day.

I don't in any way believe that Alcoholism is a disease, but I do believe people can develop a psychological dependency on it.  Still, that dependency can't be used as an excuse because there are factors, aside from their own actions, that are causing it.

Obesity...  Anyone that claims it's a disease is stupid.  Sure, there are genetic factors, like Eternimus pointed out, that have some people more likely to gain weight, but that just means they need to work harder to prevent that.  It may not be "fair" but life isn't fair.  I've been bitching(ish) for the last four years about how c@ (and some other people) have been blessed with high metabolisms.  It always irritates me that he can down a bag of potato chips in a single day, multiple times a week, and probably not gain weight from it, but I can eat pretty healthy and not lose weight.  Although I know my own problem is a lack of regular exercise, and my caffeine dependency.   But watching people sit around, eat 10,000 calories in a day and not gain weight makes one sad fox.

Quit soda and McDonalds (and other fast food) and start eating better food and you'll loose weight...

I've never had a particularly fast metabolism, but now I miss being a teenager.   I could give up soda for a few weeks when I was 16 or 17 and lose a few pounds from that alone. 

But that's the big problem with obesity, many people prefer convenience over their own health.  They could go home and cook themselves a nice big meal that would not only be healthier than eating at a fast food place, but also be cheaper, but they don't want to do that.

Obesity may not be a disease, but I think childhood obesity, without some sort of genetic factor, should almost be a crime.  I may not be all that healthy myself, but it's a little depressing when I see a fat couple with a kid that's almost as wide as it is tall.  If you saw the reverse, with a couple that had kids that looked starved, they'd probably end up in jail for child abuse, but I think feeding a kid poorly should be seen as just as bad.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Although I'm not sure exactly what defines an alcoholic.  A person can drink every day and not be an alcoholic, like if they enjoy a beer or glass of wine in the evenings or something.  A person could also go out to a party occasionally and get trashed and I wouldn't consider them an alcoholic, unless they were doing it regularly.  I think the few things I really see as "signs" of alcoholism would be drinking in excess alone (meaning if you're drinking by yourself past the point of getting buzzed) or when you get upset when you can't have alcohol in a day.

Alcoholism is a difficult syndrome to understand until you've had extended direct contact with someone who suffers from it.  Most of my in-laws are habitual alcohol abusers, and I can point to at least two symptoms that can be used by any layman to diagnose an alcoholic:

• Binge Drinking - Alone or not, getting drunk and staying that way for more than a day is a binge.  At her worst, I've observed my mother-in-law to binge drink for 3 months straight, before running out of money and becoming so violently hungover that she would have to visit the hospital to detox.
  
  
• Inability to Hold a Job - This pretty much goes without saying, but if you're drunk for a couple weeks straight, you're going to lose your job.  A pretty obvious alcoholic is somebody who gets a new job, works it for a couple weeks, then stops showing up after they get that first pay check.  They didn't suddenly decide they don't like that job, they're just drunk and spending all of that pay check on Natural Ice!  In a couple weeks, when that money runs out, they'll detox and start looking for a new job in order to start repeating the process all over again.

I've never had a particularly fast metabolism, but now I miss being a teenager. I could give up soda for a few weeks when I was 16 or 17 and lose a few pounds from that alone. .

You know why?  Because HFCS is a four-letter word.  Cut high fructose corn syrup out of your diet (or at least minimize it) and you'll stop or at least drastically slow your weight gain.  Easier said than done, however, because HFCS is dirt cheap and in E V E R Y T H I N G.  You'll have to re-examine everything you eat.  From that flavored coffee creamer you like so much (use sugar and half-n-half instead) to the ketchup you put on your kid's french fries (make your own!).

[Rottweiler]

3) ADD/ADHD is a crock of sh**. It's just a way for parents to get an okay to drug up their offspring so they don't have to actually be parents. Your kid won't pay attention? The back of your hand will fix that real fast, and you don't need a prescription.

I want to take a moment to reply, and thank you. I've been tense and this is a wonderful opportunity for me to vent on someone whose ignorance is so blatant as to measure on the Richter Scale.

Speaking as someone who's had ADD all my life, I would like you to sit down in your favorite chair and have a tall glass of Shut the f*** Up.

Guess what, mon ami? I got the back of my Dad's hand pretty often! And guess what? Didn't work! Had something to do with my lack of certain chemicals which made my attention span short and affected my short-term memory, which made graduating from high school pretty touch and go. Until I got that whacky prescription I was angry, frustrated at my inability to succeed, and pretty angry at my Dad for being an ignorant bully who thought- as you do- that a *MEDICAL CONDITION WHICH SCIENTISTS HAVE PROVEN TO EXIST* could be cured by physical violence.

What's next? Cure Cancer by harsh language? Perhaps we should deny that Diabetes exists, declare it, too, a crock of sh**, and tell people not to eat candy! My mother (Juvenile onset Type 1 Diabetic) might diagree with your diagnosis...Doctor.

I will be fascinated to see what other medical conditions your Wisdom has determined to be false.

[Rottweiler]

I suppose I should on some level apologize for the previous, but honestly- I won't. Having had ADD for 38 years, I have something of an understanding of it which makes me a wee bit irritable with people who unilaterally and with no understanding or experience deny it exists. I might have been overly harsh- but I also feel that denying a condition I've had all my life exists is insulting in the extreme.

That being said, I suppose I should answer the other portions that were asked:

AIDS

A horrific condition, which I hope will be cured. It is far beyond any questions of Gay or Heterosexual at this point.

Harpies

Also horrific, but if one beleives Greek Mythology, they're vital to the ecosystem.

ADD/ADHD

A proven, existing condition. (Really, set of related conditions.)

Speaking from my own experience, imagine having memory issues and an inability to properly filter out distractions, making concentration on things difficult. Imagine, if you will, *knowing* you have to do something but finding yourself doing something else without even really realizing you had done it. This is not some cutesy, 'oh he's absent-minded'. This is no matter how important it is, no matter how much trouble you'll be in for not doing something, being UNABLE to do it because you CANNOT stop from being distracted.

Countless times I would find myself doing something else for an hour *without realizing I had stopped doing what I was supposed to*.

Would *you* like having that loss of control? Would you enjoy having to try to *explain* it to people who say 'you lack discipline' or 'you should focus more' or any of a number of idiotic suggestions which imply you're lazy or stupid and ignore the fact that it's a medical condition which you don't have control over?

Seriously, it's like looking down at an Epileptic having a seizure and saying 'stop shaking like that, you can stop if you just try harder'.

Do I agree that it's misdiagnosed a great deal? Hell yes. However, I *am* tired of people who from the deep depths (sarcasm) of their supposed 'knowledge' declare that it doesn't exist at all.

I wasn't diagnosed with it until I was 18. That meant that for 18 solid years I got to have every label applied to my lack of success known to man- all of them *my fault*. Do I use ADD as an excuse? No. By the same token, I won't have some asshat tell me I'm lazy when I couldn't focus for more than ten minutes at a time. 


Alcoholism

Something that happens due to concious decision, and can be fixed with willpower.


Bad Parenting

Prospective parents should be required to successfully raise and train (and love) a puppy or kitten before being allowed to have a child.

Sex with Monkeys

It gets lonely on the Savannah. What natives of the Congo do in their own homes is none of my affair.

OHBeastaliality (obesity)

I find that fat chicks try much harder. Frankly, I'd rather date a woman with a weight problem who doesn't think her body entitles her to be treated like a Deity and acts like a normal human being instead of the 'cute' ones who end up with 5 kids and no responsibility by 23.

Going to the rubber room farm for an anxiety attack

That truly depends on the cause. People have nervous conditions- whether genetic, caused by issues, or self-influcted. If they truly don't have control over it, then that's what treatment exists for. If it's false, I have no compassion.

Sex ahoholics

I think those who claim not to be sexaholics are fooling themselves.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

Phew!  Eternimus got TOLD!

[Oni]

Phew!  Eternimus got TOLD!

OMG for the second time because of this website. I have fallen out of my chair in mad laughter. Oh gawd that was great.

[Eternimus]

I want to take a moment to reply, and thank you. I've been tense and this is a wonderful opportunity for me to vent on someone whose ignorance is so blatant as to measure on the Richter Scale.

Speaking as someone who's had ADD all my life, I would like you to sit down in your favorite chair and have a tall glass of Shut the f*** Up.

Guess what, mon ami? I got the back of my Dad's hand pretty often! And guess what? Didn't work! Had something to do with my lack of certain chemicals which made my attention span short and affected my short-term memory, which made graduating from high school pretty touch and go. Until I got that whacky prescription I was angry, frustrated at my inability to succeed, and pretty angry at my Dad for being an ignorant bully who thought- as you do- that a *MEDICAL CONDITION WHICH SCIENTISTS HAVE PROVEN TO EXIST* could be cured by physical violence.

Nearly my ENTIRE FAMILY has ADD or ADHD. I still don't consider it a disease. Our parents watched what we ate, got on us when we got out of line, and that's it. There are nearly 20 different cases in my bloodline (mainly my cousins) that have been diagnosed with one or the other, and guess what? NONE OF US NEEDED DRUGS! Not a single one. We got out of line, we got in trouble. It's that simple. Personally I don't have it. My 6 year old does. Most of my cousins do. And a few of my aunts/uncles. The only one that ever got put on meds for it is my cousin Amanda. Because her mother didn't want to deal with another ADD kid. The rest of them live fine, healthy lives without the aid of drugs. Hell my wife's brother has it bad, and know what her mom's remedy is? Some coffee.

The point is, while your case may be genuine or whatever, I have been around the sh** my WHOLE LIFE as you have, and I can honestly say there is no reason to need meds. I'm not talking about slapping the sh** out of someone over the course of a homework assignment. There are limits to when you should or should not punish a child. And as for your "Medical condition proven to exist comment" that's like restless leg syndrome right? Or homosexuality being a disease? There are ACTUAL diseases, and there are things medical professionals say are diseases to make people feel better.

Oh by the way, if it's a disease, then factors such as social and environmental wouldn't matter. Do some research, and you'll find they do. Also, some of the treatments for it wouldn't include BEHAVIORAL THERAPY. And that's all "medical fact" from various add/adhd websites. Medication is just the easiest way of dealing with it. There are things that help control it like a decent diet, firm rules, an even amount of discipline, a bunch of other things. You have to teach the child correct behavior. Just because you have the urge to act like an idiot, doesn't mean you need to.

I suppose I should on some level apologize for the previous, but honestly- I won't. Having had ADD for 38 years, I have something of an understanding of it which makes me a wee bit irritable with people who unilaterally and with no understanding or experience deny it exists. I might have been overly harsh- but I also feel that denying a condition I've had all my life exists is insulting in the extreme.

I accept your apology and I will concede that there are some genetic factors, like with obesity. And I understand you're older. I also understand everyone is different. But I have seen many people helped without meds or anything, so I can honestly say they aren't needed. And anything you can live a full, healthy life with just by watching your diet, and a bit of therapy I don't consider a disease. At all. Cancer is a disease. Parkinson's is a disease. ADD? Not so much.

As for me being ignorant? Not likely. I may sound harsh in my comments, but I do actually know what I'm talking about.

[Rottweiler]

Nearly my ENTIRE FAMILY has ADD or ADHD. I still don't consider it a disease.

***MEDICAL CONDITION, NOT DISEASE***

That's on you. I consider it a medical condition based on lacks in body chemistry, like most doctors and scientists do. However, to be exact, you called it a 'crock of sh**'...

YET YOU JUST STATED IN PLAIN ENGLISH YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY HAS IT.

Make up your mind. If it doesn't exist, your family doesn't have it and you shouldn't even be mentioning it. If it does exist, your statement of 'crock of sh**' is, in a cosmic irony, A CROCK OF sh**.

Our parents watched what we ate, got on us when we got out of line, and that's it. There are nearly 20 different cases in my bloodline (mainly my cousins) that have been diagnosed with one or the other, and guess what? NONE OF US NEEDED DRUGS! Not a single one. We got out of line, we got in trouble. It's that simple.

From your perspective, perhaps. Of course, you haven't a clue how well any of those cases might have done if they had had a prescription, do you? Myself, I take a non-addictive, non-amphetamine drug, originally used as a low-level heart medication, and it works fine. The fact that your family *chose not to use drugs* has absolutely no bearing other than they chose that path and- according to you- it worked.

How well it worked is subjective and you clearly aren't in a position to know or give relevant data. If you had witnessed some of those cases *try* various drugs under the treatment of a Physician, and can say honestly that *none of the drugs worked* while the non-drug therapy did, then yes you could say with some validity that 'drugs don't work'. However, since you stated no drug was even tried (though you contradict yourself even on that) you only know half the story and base your entire argument on that half.

I myself can say, from being on the drug and being off the drug, that the medication I take makes a huge difference in my quality of life and my ability to concentrate, focus, and succeed. That's plain fact that I don't have from watching someone else, that's me and knowing *personally*.


Personally I don't have it. My 6 year old does. Most of my cousins do. And a few of my aunts/uncles. The only one that ever got put on meds for it is my cousin Amanda. Because her mother didn't want to deal with another ADD kid. The rest of them live fine, healthy lives without the aid of drugs. Hell my wife's brother has it bad, and know what her mom's remedy is? Some coffee.

And, thank you for undermining your entire argument. "Know what her mom's remedy is? Caffeine, which is a drug." Hm. Wonder how many *other chemicals* you skipped over which all those other 'non-drug' people took to help control their non-existent condition. That's like people who get on their high horse and criticise people who take aspirin, then drink Willow Bark Tea...which is what aspirin was originally made from.

Et tu, Hypocrites?



The point is, while your case may be genuine or whatever,

It is, thank you for almost acting as if I have some knowledge of the subject compared to yourself, who doesn't have the condition!

I have been around the sh** my WHOLE LIFE as you have, and I can honestly say there is no reason to need meds.

Do you have some kind of evidence other than your family choice and your own opinion? I know people who've had strokes who refused drugs and physical therapy, and they, too can crutch their way onto a soapbox and say "nobody needs meds! Look at me, I can barely get around and I'm in constant agonizing pain which makes me lonely and unpleasant, but by my standards I can tell everyone what works and what doesn't!" That doesn't make them right- it makes them masochistic idiots who other stroke victims- who did what their doctors suggested and are %500 more functional- pity.

Where you go wrong is that you, without much basis, determine that drugs are completely unecessary whereas they *can help enourmously*. 



I'm not talking about slapping the sh** out of someone over the course of a homework assignment.

Then you should be clearer, because you come off as an abusive, incompassionate dictator. My father, who *SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE* did indeed slap the sh** out of me. He, too, knew better despite his lack of a medical degree and because he 'knew better'. He said so! Who was I to question him, or demand evidence or proof he was correct?

There are limits to when you should or should not punish a child. And as for your "Medical condition proven to exist comment" that's like restless leg syndrome right? Or homosexuality being a disease? There are ACTUAL diseases, and there are things medical professionals say are diseases to make people feel better.

Wow. Could you, for the rest of us, show your medical credentials that show you have some CLUE about this topic? And no, 'I been around it all my life' doesn't count sir. Please present your MD, PhD, or other sign that you have acheived professional credentials that apply to this matter.

Also, you're a jackass if you compare ADD with retarded statements about lifestyle choices like homosexuality. How about Tourette's Syndrome? Diabetes? Dyslexia? Epilepsy?

Are all those, in your learned medical opinion, crocks of sh**?

Here are a couple of sites who, ever so respectfully, disagree with you.

http://www.add.org/

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

Also, Dr. CJ Little, MD, would beg to differ with you- and you know, I kinda trust my doctor more than I do you. There are plenty of people out there who- due almost entirely to opposition to Ritalin (WHICH I ALSO OPPOSE)- claim to know how to 'fix' ADD without drugs. Some of their methods work *in some cases* and fail utterly in others. However, I note that very few of them *agree with you* and refuse to admit ADD/ADHD exists as a medical condition.




Oh by the way, if it's a disease, then factors such as social and environmental wouldn't matter.

...what? Are you out of your mind? OF COURSE social and environmental factors matter in the treatment of a medical condition! (Note for the record- *I* don't refer to it as a disease. YOU did.)


Do some research, and you'll find they do. Also, some of the treatments for it wouldn't include BEHAVIORAL THERAPY. And that's all "medical fact" from various add/adhd websites.

Um. You are so ignorant here I cannot comprehend it.

Diabetes. This is a medical condition. I flat dare you to claim you know dick about how medicine doesn't need to be administered for Diabetes.

YET! Part of treatment is BEHAVIORAL THERAPY. Modes of activity, discipline in your eating and excercise routines, adjustment to the condition.

By your words, this means Diabetes is a 'crock of sh**'. How about Dyslexia? That, too, has Behavioral Therapy. Tourette's? Same.



Medication is just the easiest way of dealing with it. There are things that help control it like a decent diet, firm rules, an even amount of discipline, a bunch of other things. You have to teach the child correct behavior. Just because you have the urge to act like an idiot, doesn't mean you need to.

So you freely admit medication does, in fact, deal with it. Note Made.

Also, YOU are the only one saying that anyone here has EVER claimed that diet, rules, and discipline aren't needed. However, *I* have been saying that medication DOES HELP, whereas you called the entire condition a 'crock of sh**'.


I accept your apology

At this point, please don't. You continue to attack without a single apology from your side, so, please retract my apology because at this point I don't owe you one.


 and I will concede that there are some genetic factors, like with obesity. And I understand you're older. I also understand everyone is different.

This goes completely in the face of your previous statements, which you base on a single family and you apply UNIVERSALLY to all cases regardless of circumstance.


But I have seen many people helped without meds or anything, so I can honestly say they aren't needed. And anything you can live a full, healthy life with just by watching your diet, and a bit of therapy I don't consider a disease. At all.

I never disagreed that *some cases* can be helped without medication. Not once. You keep inferring otherwise and putting words in my mouth.

 Cancer is a disease. Parkinson's is a disease. ADD? Not so much.

I never said it was a 'disease'. I said it was a 'medical condition'. However, what does that have to do with it? A *broken leg* isn't a disease, either. However, were you to say 'no antibiotics, no cast, no pain meds, they're all completely unecessary' people would rightly look at you as if you were insane.

As for me being ignorant? Not likely. I may sound harsh in my comments, but I do actually know what I'm talking about.

I disagree. Not once in any of your statements have you shown evidence, backing by recognized members of the medical profession, or anything other than you own opinion based on a small number of people, all related to you, about a condition you have never personally experienced nor have *personal* experience with. That's like having a relative with Cancer and saying 'I am an expert because they have it'. The few sites I've found which recommend non-drug therapy focus on amphetamine usage as the reason they are against it- yet, many NON-amphetamine drugs are in use to help with ADD.

I call you ignorant because you make sweeping, universal statements which apply regardless of circumstance, about a *MEDICAL CONDITION, NOT DISEASE* which you have no credentials to back up. Show me something other than opinion and hearsay and 'I know because I know' and maybe you'll show me something to change my mind.