Equivalent Exchange

[Oni]

In the fictional world of the Fullmetal Alchemist anime series, Equivalent Exchange (等価交換, Tōka Kōkan?) is a version of the Antoine Lavoisier's law of conservation of matter, and the primary law that governs the practice of alchemy. Alchemist Alphonse Elric offers this simple explanation of the law after restoring a broken radio:

“    It's an equation. Your output has to be of equal mass and materials to what you started with. The base elements have to be similar too. Like the radio I fixed - I couldn't make it bigger, or a tree, or something.    ”

Aside from being an actual physical law, however, the principle of Equivalent Exchange is also adopted by some alchemists - the Elrics included - as a karmic way of life, believing the hard work, effort and suffering that one puts into any task will be met with an equivalent reward.

“    Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.

Though it is true that Full Metal Alchemist is the modern recreater of this physolophy. It is not the origionator of this idea. I have lived my life and learned from this simple idea for a long time before the anime. Though I have lived and modified it. For that reason though my Karma is always off ballanced. I am away that I have off ballanced my own karma through that. But I have watched others, and watched actions in others. It has become my experiance that people often make one huge mistake when it comes to this law.
Example. Person A helps Person B move into a new Apartment. Person A makes the mistake of asuming that Person B will be the source of the equivalent reward for helping him move. But in reality it is the universe that is the source for  that reward, there are times when Person B can be the giver of the reward but never the source.
Even I have made that simple common mistake.

What are your takes on this simple idea?
How can you use it in your life?
Does it effect you?
Have you seen it happen?

[ViewSonic]

If I recall right the Karmatic Law of the univers is
"What goes around comes around"


Depending on your belief though,all karma comes back by 3...depending on what you practice the number tends to change.

I think the law of Equivalent Exchange is a good idea. But you have to be sure it is equal on both sides of the equasion. You cant give the apearance of ballance and expect it to work out. Now if you have a forsite, you see the cause and effects of all actions, and start to create plans so that in the long run the ballance is brought out.

Though God does not take to kindly to poeple medling with Fate. Though I am sure in the old days God gave people gifts, and the ability to proform miricales...I don't believe he has continued that today. I dont think people would be able to use those tallents for good with out trying to benifit them selfs in some way from them.

Becareful how you go about it though, if you are not careful, you may not like what you get in return. Especially when you try and cheat that law.

[Kritter]

I will have to say NO on this one. The whole “Equivalent Exchange” thing is not buying it for me. I do believe on the whole “what comes around, goes around”, but I don’t see myself fully believing and understanding this whole thing.

Though Fullmetal Alchemist was a great anime. I <3 it! The ending was a bit disappointing and the movie that is based after the anime series did helped to answer unsolved questions; however, it still feel unsatisfied with the ending. I personally can’t fully remember how the ending goes since I only saw it once and that was a LONG way back. But it does explain the whole “Equivalent Exchange” theory. Hmmm, think it is time to rewatch Fullmetal Alchemist again. 

[Oni]

ok but you do not explain why you dont get the whole Equivalent Exchange thing, but you get the whats goes around comes around.

[Goman Fox]

ok but you do not explain why you dont get the whole Equivalent Exchange thing, but you get the whats goes around comes around.

Probably because "Equivalent Exchange" suggests that everything equals out in the end, while "What goes around, comes around" generally means that if you do good or bad things, then good or bad things will happen to you in the future.  Possibly more than you did, possibly less.

It would be like saying that if someone in your family dies, something good should come along and happen to that family as part of an "equivalent exchange."  You lose someone you love so you should gain something in return, right?  Doesn't really work that way though.

But with "What goes around, comes around" it would be like if a person was a complete dick to everyone they met and eventually, one day they needed help from someone but couldn't get it because of what they did in the past.  It's not equivalent, not even in your point of view cat (since I know your idea of "equivalent exchange" isn't the same as the general idea) but it's still caused by one's actions.

[Oni]

Yesh as a cat my perspective on Equivalent Exchange is kinda askew...
And I am also aware that for that reason my Karma is screwy. Karma plays into the "what goes around comes around, but it also plays with Equivalent Exchange,..I would say that all three really play on eachother.
Differenct perspectives of the same idea.
Karma creates a type of ballance in the universe.
"What goes around comes around" is more a direct saying of if you are nice to some one then nice things will happen to you. .... "If you give your love and life to God he will give the same back to you...." <- ya had to put that input there. And really i think is one of the Karmatic Laws.
Equivalent Exchange says that there is a math matical equasion that states "To obtain, something of equal value must be lost." (well that's  the FMA Translation, and the easest to use, as it can be used in both regular life, and in science, and tech) Witch i think is a law that works hand in hand with Karma. Some times effected by and some times effecting the Karma.
But you see the cat in me teads to change the equasion a bit.
"To obtain, the apearance of something of equal value must be lost"...that appearance has burned me on a few occasions. Because this is one of those laws that you cant really mess with. No matter how you flip it. If you actually give more, or if you actually recieve more...it off sets the equasion, so Karma comes in to ballance it out, in on way or the other.
Cats life and think in there own world...and in the reality of it, can define the simple laws of the universe...but not even GOD can break the Constant laws of the universe, as they were set down long before him.
A Cat God on the other hand, say a God of Chaos and Order....well that God plays has dinner with Karma, and are in a game of cat and mouse so to speak.

[aksnowgirl98]

I like to think of Karma as universal justice, or something from the next level of existance, the order that keeps the universe functioning. While it may not be as swift  as we may like, or the outcome may be different from what we think someone diserves, something comes back for what you do.

[Rachael]

I believe that if God exists, then he was the one who set down the laws of the universe, so of course he can work around them.

I believe in karma to some extent, but it's certainly not equivalent exchange.  Not in this life, anyway.  Many good deeds go unrewarded, and many wicked deeds go unpunished.  Sons pay for the sins of their fathers, a murderer gets away with his crime while an innocent man is executed in his place.  Children die of hunger and disease and soldiers die in an unjust war.

Sure, what goes around comes around, but it does not necessarily "come around" in equal magnitude to the original act committed.  Someone might save someone's life and only be rewarded with a "Thank you," or someone might give a quarter so a kid can get a gumball and be rewarded with a new job.  On the other end of the spectrum, someone could commit murder and his only punishment is the occasional "Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't done that," or somebody could tell a lie and end up losing their life.

Life isn't fair, nature isn't fair, and karma is a joke.  The only way I can actually see karma distributed evenly is if God exists and somehow rewards the just and punishes the wicked in the afterlife.  Otherwise, "equivalent exchange" only exists in alchemy, mathematical formulas, and maybe some economical transactions.

And Oni, at first I was impressed and happy that you actually looked up the characters for "equivalent exhange," but you copy-and-pasted, didn't you? :p

[Oni]

Ya for a bit of it. Only cause I was tied up doing a few things. I for got to reference the source. I went back to later and found that that bit of info has been put up all over by many different people claiming to be the origional. The source I got it from was Wiki. So I could drop the reference link if you like. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent_Exchange
Here it is.

Wasnt trying to steal anybodies work. Just spaced it.


I looked it up because I knew if I tried to explain it, it would not come out right. LOL. I have no writting skills. You should know that. hehe.