Gays In The Military

[Kritter]

This was something that donged at my head last night when I was watching The L Word.

I would like to hear others opinion towards the whole “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in the military?

Now, I know I don’t know the full detail of this subject; however, during my New Year’s vacation, I was at the Minneapolis Airport waiting for my flight back to Anchorage and during my wait, I was watching the news. While I was watching the news, one of the subjects had my full attention and it was the Gay in the military issue. Some one (I seriously don’t remember who) is trying to get rid of the Don’t ask, don’t tell policy. Personally I think it’s about time and I hope the policy drops. Gays are Americans too and they have the same rights to fight for our country and what it stands for. If a soldier is gay/lesbian in any of the military branches, then I commend you for enduring the shits of the whole isssue.

I hope the policy does drop and every gay/lesbian soldier can finally freely express themselves without the fear/worries of losing their jobs.

[Goman Fox]

I don't really know much about the military or anything, so hopefully I wont sound like one of those stupid people that talk about a subject without actually understanding it.  But chances are I will.

Anyways, I think it's stupid that homosexual and bisexual people in the military have to hide it.  I don't really see why one's sexual orientation would affect how they serve in the military, so why is being gay and acting on it so wrong?  Maybe the whole "no openly gay people in the military" thing has some sort of important history that I don't know about, but to me, it really doesn't seem to have a purpose aside from discrimination.  Just seems strange, but maybe I don't understand it completely. *shrugs*

[chuckhart]

If it is so awful for Pres. Bush to consider gays in our military, why does he ask Canadian, and Brittish gays to serve alongside our troops?  Are they better than American gays?  Can anyone here smell a little hypocracy?

[Rev. Johnathan Jones]

To me its another sign of discrimination. I am constantly amazed that in this "land of the free" gays and lesbians face so much discrimination. We can't marry(except in a couple of states), we can't serve in the military, we are considered bad role models for children, we are often reffered to as abominations but... we still have to pay our taxes!!!!! I aggree with Chuck- I smell hypocricy.

[electrolass]

I served for eleven years in the Alaska Air National Guard.  Near the end of my service, I and my partner spent a year having our lives pried into and scrutinized when the military decided to investigate me for having broken "don't ask, don't tell."  Friends of mine were called and questioned at their places of employment, our phone was tapped and I was threatened by other members of my unit.  I was eventually cleared of all charges, but the process left a horrible taste in my mouth.  On a positive note, I was genuinely touched by the people who stood up for me, and wanted me to continue after the investigation was over, but on the other hand having other gay members in the unit shun me in order to avoid facing the same fate was very hard to bare.  In addition on the day that I was told by my commander that I had been cleared of the charges, I was threatened again and told that certain members would continue to bring me up on charges.  I asked my commander if this was possible, and he said it was and that there was nothing he could do to defend me.  I decided to get out.  I have the Service Members Legal Defense network to thank for protecting me and giving me strength during that awful time.  If anyone would like to support the repeal of this idiotic policy, I highly recommend visiting the SLDN website.  They are one of the strongest voices against the policy, and are always ( as is everyone civic minded organization these days) in need of donations.  I cannot express my gratitude to SLDN enough.  When the investigation started, they assigned to me a lawyer who sent me a simple white card with instructions as to what to do if I were to be taken into custody.  I kept that card with me at all times.  Anyway, I have gone on long enough.   

[Eternimus]

A warrior is a warrior. A soldier is a soldier. Who cares if you're gay and join the military? Sexual preference is not a measure of skill. It's a measure of SEXUAL PREFERENCE. You are not shipped off to breed them out. You are sent to erradicate them. Sexual orientation is not even required. Nor should it matter. Personally I think a load of gays would survive better. Because when you're aroused, if everyone in your unit is gay, there ya go. Whereas the straights try to go get some from who knows where and get in trouble for it.

[Oni]

ROFLOL.
Captain Private, this is General Sukme. 
That’s a very unique point of view. Thought I don’t think the US military would like the idea of a G I Orgy. Lol. Thought would be an interesting thing to see.
I think they have a movie about that....*thumbs through private libuarry*...yep...and it is funnyto watch. lol.

[electrolass]

Kritter,

Good for you.  My suggestion.  Drop a line to your congressman.  I hear on the grapevine that emails regarding "don't ask, don't tell" are on the rise.  I personally am happy that I chose to get out before this wholesale waste of human life began, but I would not want to deprive any young person the opportunity to experience what I did in the military.  I saw many things.  Wish I had not, but I gained an awful lot from my time.  The esprit de corps message of the military is not wrong.  Defense of homeland is noble.  It is only the system that is horribly corrupt.  Still, there are many girls still using the military to flee incestuous rape, and other unsavory fates at the hand of such minded people.  I saw this first hand, and if those types want to do so, I say, let them.  And if a young gay man wants to use the military to gain an opportunity to escape his small minded town, then let him.  The wicked truth is that the military is going to send gays and lesbians to fight this war, but when the drums have silenced and the horns know longer sound the battle cry, the military will take no time to expel these brave men and women.  Don't believe it, just read some newspaper articles written during the post gulf war years.  Yep, we love our veterans.   

[5m3rk]

lets take a lesson from History ...
Greeks - had the whole "mentoring" thing
Romans - yep

Should they have to hide it - no they should not have to.  But I think that flaunting it would lead to a lack of trust/confidence from the general public (who in my estimation are homophobic).  But if the military would simply state that  gay/straight relationships where the same - then there would not be a problem at all... that is another can of worms for another time.

peace

[Goman Fox]

lets take a lesson from History ...
Greeks - had the whole "mentoring" thing
Romans - yep

I remember reading that Japan had a similar thing as well.  Like younger samurai apprenticing under more experienced samurai, and they would usually be lovers.

Honestly, I believe a lot of cultures have had homosexuality play a large role in their histories.  Although I don't think it had so much to do with homosexuality as a sexual orientation.  In a lot of these places, women were pretty much property, seen as extremely low class, down there with slaves and such.  I think in Greece, having casual sex with other men was common because it was "wrong" to do that with a woman, or something.  I dunno, it's been a while since I've read up on that.

I just think it's strange that so many cultures had a background of accepted homosexuality in their history, yet now some of them nearly reject homosexuality completely.

[Im1ru1]

*Year Old Topic Renewed*
(I will apologize for the length in advance, and please note that I use "soldier" generically to refer to servicemembers regardless of thier branch of service.)
I have what I hope will be a unique perspective on this issue.  Let me explain the background:
At age 17 I joined the US Army.
At age 19 I came to grips with my sexuality and began coming out to close friends in the Army.
Shortly afterward, I was investigated for violating the military's (at the time) complete ban on Gays and Lesbians serving in the military.  With the help of a friend's wife, I was able to convince them that I "belonged" and I completed my term.  I was Honorably Discharged after 4 years active duty and 2 years inactive reserves service.  I returned home and obtained a Bachelor's Degree in History, and then set out on a Journey that would lead me to Alaska.  On the way, I spent some time in Arkansas, and I got the chance to meet the Governor, Bill Clinton.  It was after a Debate with his Republican Opponent for the Governorship, and his rival accused Bill of having Presidential aspirations.  Bill dismissed this with the statement that "If you re-elect me as your governor, I will not run for President in 1992.  We all know that this became just another lie he told to get where he wanted to be. 
Shortly after I got to Alaska, I was asked to help organize the state delegation to The '93 March on Washington, and one of the things that the March Organizing Committee did was invite ALL of the candidates for President (Bill, GHWBush, and Ross Perot) to address the crowd on The Mall.  The months leading up to the March were exciting for me, we had successfully campaigned for (in a small measure) a law in the Municipality of Anchorage that protected GLBTQ employees of the Municipality and its Contractors from employment discrimination based on their sexual orientation.  We hoped that this would be the start of a broader law that protected ALL Anchorage citizens from all forms of sexual orientation discrimination.  Not long after he took office, despite his promise that he would END the ban on Gays and Lesbians serving openly in the military, Bill betrayed our community by proposing "Dont Ask, Don't Tell", which has resulted in far more discharges of GLBTQ servicemembers than the old BAN ever did.  Colin Powell, who one would think should be a forceful opponent of discrimination, went on television and told us that allowing GLBTQ soldiers to serve openly would be "detrimental to the good order and discipline" of our armed forces, because those "straight" soldiers who disagreed with homosexuality wouldn't want to share a foxhole (sorry Fox) with a gay person.    As a very visible and vocal advocate for GLBT rights in Anchorage at the time, I was given the opportunity to debate the merits of the President's Policy with the Commander of the VFW and the head of the American Legion for Alaska.  I pointed out to these gentlemen that the job of a soldier was to follow orders, and that if their fear (which they had eloquently articulated) was that GLBT soldiers would be victims of violence if allowed to serve openly, then perhaps the danger to "good order and discipline" wasn't from gays and lesbains, but instead from straight people who couldn't follow orders very well. 
In the end, "Don't Ask" was only the first of three ways that Bill Clinton disappointed our community:
1. Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which as I noted above has lead to unprecedented discharges of GLBTQ soldiers, including vital specialists in arabic languages (during a time we're fighting a war in an Arabic region).
2. Bill Clinton declined to address the '93 March on Washington.  He felt that addressing a conference of Newspaper Editors in Boston was a higher priority than addressing the estimated 1 million citizens that came to Washington DC hoping to hear somethig positive from him.  He sent the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Donna Shalala, to convey his regrets.  (News flash, Bill...you had Air Force One, and Boston's REALLY CLOSE to DC, so you COULD have addressed both groups, and we DEFINATELY would have accomodated his schedule)
3. DOMA The Defense of Marriage Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.  In a June 1996 interview in the gay and lesbian magazine The Advocate, Clinton said: " I remain opposed to same-sex marriage. I believe marriage is an institution for the union of a man and a woman. This has been my long-standing position, and it is not being reviewed or reconsidered."

Again, sorry for the ramble...but I hope it provides some historical reference.

Herman

[Oni]

It is my understanding that all through out history and in the great army's of history, always had gay men in them, in one way or the other. So why be so ... anal about it today.

[Imported Memory]

The Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy was crafted by Colin Powell and has been maintained by George W. Bush.

[Im1ru1]

I'm not concerned with the author of the policy, or whether Bush has maintained it, what bothers me is that our community reveres Bill Clinton, and he LIED to us...Bill could have been true to his word, and issued the Executive Order that would allow GLBT folks to serve openly, and then let the Republican led Congress do what they felt they needed to do.  Then run on your record...I promise you this...I and MANY other gay republicans would have been Clinton Republicans if he'd just had the balls to stand for what he said he would do.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

I humbly suggest that the Don't ask, don't tell policy is obsolete and therefore should be replaced with the I'm super, thanks for asking! policy.