"Don't ask, because we won't answer"

[Rachael]

Ooh, I just got done watching the CNN/YouTube Debate.  It was the Republican one; I didn't catch the Democratic one, unfortunately.

I'd say the part that really stood out to me was this question.  It was played during the debate on a big screen (as were all the other questions) and four candidates--Hunter, Huckabee, Romney, and McCain--answered.

Hunter's argument against gays in the military basically amounted to this:

"Many soldiers in the military have conservative values concerning gays and lesbians.  Allowing them to be openly gay in the military would interfere with unit cohesion.  It's wrong to infringe on people's rights by forcing them to work and live in close quarters with openly gay men."

Um, I'm sorry, WHAT!?  And keeping openly gay men and women out of the military is not an infringement of their rights?

Does this mean I can go to the dean and complain about my right to not be forced to sit in class with people who don't agree with me politically or religiously?  Of course not, because the whole point of having a democracy is that you have the right to practice your own lifestyle, even if it offends other people.

If a man flirts with another man in their ranks, I can see why that would cause a problem.  But what's wrong with saying "I miss my boyfriend" or something like that?

Question:
-Do you think Hunter's reason made sense?
-Did any of you watch the debate?

[Rachael]

You can watch the candidates' responses here:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJVHuFeYkA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJVHuFeYkA</a>

[Oni]

ok let me first start of by saying its 4am when I am typing this. So it may not come off as clear as I would like it to. LOL

There will always be homophobia. Meaning even if a policy is set forth saying that GLBT people can't be kicked out. Peple will find a way.

Don't ask don't tell. Seems pretty simple. Though if found out you should not be kicked out. There should be some modifications to that. Why cause a strait military person can lead a normal life. But a gay person in the services has to keep there life in secret. Live two lifes. Alot of gay people already do that.

I look at don't ask don't tell the same as I look at it in the work atmosphere. I don't go around telling people I am gay, but I also don't hide it. You should not be punished for it, but also there is not a whole lot of reason to flaunt it iether. Sorry if I insult some here. I don't mean to.

Really I do think the Don't ask Don't tell should be modified. To simply Don't ask. LOL and if you find out some one is gay, you can't do anything about it. Much like any other "Hate" crime.

[Rachael]

Right.  But I don't think keeping a photo of your boyfriend in your wallet or mentioning him in an offhand sort of way is the same thing as "flaunting" your homosexuality.  Straight men doubtless talk about their wives and girlfriends in the army.  They're not "flaunting" their heterosexuality.  They're simply acknowledging a part of their life that is real to them.

Also, I've heard a lot of people complain about living in close quarters with gay people, because gays are attracted to other men.  I think that's ridiculous.  Straight men don't want to have sex with every single member of the gender they're attracted to.  Why should gay men be any different?  And even if a man did develop feelings about another man in their ranks, he'd be an idiot to let that get in the way of professionalism.  He'd know that if he so much as looks at another man the wrong way he'll get beaten up.

And like you said, you don't tell people about your homosexuality, but you don't hide it, either.  That's how it should be.  "Openly gay" doesn't mean you mention you're gay every five minutes, or hit on other men constantly, or talk about what your partner and yourself do behind closed doors.  It just means you're not afraid of others knowing you're gay.

These are men and women who are living with the constant knowledge that they could be killed or horribly disfigured or incapacitated at any moment.  I think they can handle serving with gays and lesbians--especially since those men and women are risking their lives and bodies in the exact same way.

[Oni]

Right.  But I think keeping a photo of your boyfriend in your wallet or mentioning him in an offhand sort of way is the same thing as "flaunting" your homosexuality.  Straight men doubtless talk about their wives and girlfriends in the army.  They're not "flaunting" their heterosexuality.  They're simply acknowledging a part of their life that is real to them.

I think you might want to reword that, or I am reading it wrong cause it sounds like you are saying it's ok for strait men to talk about there wifes, and have pics of them cause they are simple achnowledging a part of there life, but not ok for gay men cause that would be flaunting it....

[Goman Fox]

Right.  But I think keeping a photo of your boyfriend in your wallet or mentioning him in an offhand sort of way is the same thing as "flaunting" your homosexuality.  Straight men doubtless talk about their wives and girlfriends in the army.  They're not "flaunting" their heterosexuality.  They're simply acknowledging a part of their life that is real to them.

Yeah, I agree with Cat here, you definitely need to reword that, unless you're trying to say that it's okay for straight people to talk about their significant other, yet it's not okay for homosexuals to do it.  I see no difference in me talking about the person I love compared to as straight person talking about the person I love, aside from the obvious difference in sex of the partner.  It's not flaunting one's homosexuality to talk about their significant other, unless it's flaunting one's heterosexuality to talk about their partner.

Either way, I think that if gays can't "flaunt" their sexuality by talking about their family, why should straight people be allowed to?  On top of "flaunting" their heterosexuality, they're also "flaunting" the fact that they have more rights than homosexuals because they can talk about it.  I think it's stupid when one group can talk about something but another group can't.  Like black people being able to say "nigger" while white people can't, or gay people saying "faggot" yet being insulted with a straight person says it.  If you expect people to respect you by not using a specific word that hurts you, you shouldn't be using it yourself.

That's just how I see it anyways.

[Rachael]

Whoops, I meant to say I don't think that.  Fixed.

[Oni]

Goood save Rachael. LOL

[Badinage]

What I'm curious about is what the rules and debates are about this issue in other countries. Countries more accepting then US specifically. Are gays allowed in the military in UK? something I haven't actually heard anything about and and am curious (other European nations too)

And yeah. Its bullshit that this has to even be a debate at all. so dark ages.